Graduated from MIT in Business Management, Chen Yu-Hwei, known by her pen name as Zheng Feng, is a prolific writer of this century with twenty Wuxia novels under her belt and book sales exceeding six hundred thousand copies. The other is Khenpo Karma Lhabu, one of the strictest contemporary retreat masters of the Karma Kagyu lineage, the main retreat instructor of Thrangu Sekhar Retreat in Nepal and the retreat center at Kagyu Samye Ling in Scotland. These two professionals have been invited by Khenpo Lodro Tengye, the director of Thrangu Dharmakara Publications, to spend time out of their busy schedules and engage in this interdisciplinary discussion titled “Mischievous Kids: Raising children & Mentoring students”.

Khenpo Lhabu’s Dharma activities have spread throughout Asia, Europe, and even Africa. His students in retreat come from over twenty countries; apart from grownups, there are hundreds of young children studying meditation, including five children he recently adopted from Africa. Khenpo jokes that he is also a father. Wuxia novelist Zheng Feng, often branded a “heroine” by her fans, is a mother of four sons and one daughter, the eldest being 19 years old and goes to college, whereas the youngest is 8 years old this year.

Addressing the array of problems found in parenting and Buddhist practice, the two experts Khenpo Lhabu and Zheng Feng provide frank answers imbued with wisdom and humor, inviting a warm reception from the audience.

(※The following is an excerpt from the original interview conducted in Chinese)

Khenpo Tengye:

I’ve been lucky to have had the chance to grow up with heroine Zheng Feng (Editor’s note: Zheng Feng is Khenpo Tengye’s elder sister) and the opportunity to study under a Khenpo who leads by example. Once I was curious and asked Khenpo what he hoped his students could achieve after six long years of staying in retreat. Will they gain some kind of superpowers? Khenpo’s reply was, “I hope that after six years, they will grow to like the Dharma, meditation and understanding themselves. Especially understanding their own minds.”

I personally feel that being self-motivated is a very difficult thing. However, when interacting with my nephew and niece, I find them rather different from other children since they don’t play with phones nor video games; they are constantly reading books when they are outside or even while traveling. Is it because my sister is so fond of reading? I want to ask you both, from a mother’s perspective, how do you bring up your children?

Zheng Feng (Zheng):

It’s difficult to share about parenting because every child’s disposition, personality, strengths and weaknesses are different. There is no standard, correct or best method to raise a child; there are only two options: one that is suitable for both mother and child and one that is effective.

How can we understand our children? There are three essential methods: first, observe; second, compare; third, communicate.

First, observe. Parents need to spend time with their children and observe their behavior in various situations like dealing with exams, participating in competitions, and their interactions with classmates. They will be able to understand their children’s personalities and capabilities through this.

Second, compare. Many people say that we should not compare with others while parenting, but I disagree and think that we must do so. Let me share my own experience. I was just 27 years old when I gave birth to my eldest son, and since there were no family or friends nearby with children, I was unaware of what to pay attention to. When he was around 3 or 4 years old, his nose became blocked frequently. I was indifferent to it as I thought it was just a minor cold. I took him to the hospital for a checkup only after his teacher remarked that the situation was abnormal. It turned out he had a breathing condition that could have developed into sleep apnea if he did not receive an operation. This is what I mean by making comparisons. We can understand the root of the problem by making comparisons. Through understanding how your child differs from others and recognizing their differences in aptitude and capabilities, you acquire an objective perspective that helps you to react accordingly.

Third, communicate. Compared to girls, boys are more reluctant to share with their mothers. To communicate better with my sons, I took a course called “P.E.T. Parent Effectiveness Training”. P.E.T.’s techniques essentially comprise of “active listening”, an empathetic, non-judgemental, and unbiased mode of listening. You guide them to describe their issues and their emotions, and by allowing them to express their feelings, the reasons behind their problems will emerge clearly, helping them realize how to solve their problems.

After hearing about Zheng Feng’s experiences, please tell us how you raise children Khenpo-la.

Khenpo Lhabu (Khenpo):

Asking a Khenpo advice on parenting sounds a little strange to me. (The crowd laughs) Traditionally, only adults stay at the retreat center. Although I am not an actual parent, the Tibetan word “Khenpo” means teacher and now that there are children amongst the retreatants, I too have experience in parenting.

Zheng:

Today I brought along Khenpo’s book Sit and Find Your Mind and there is an illustration of the Nine Stages of Abiding explaining the process of taming the mind. In the beginning, a monk is chasing after an elephant which represents our minds, and in front of the elephant is a monkey signifying the five consciousnesses. Grasping a metal hook and rope, he frantically chases after the crazed elephant and the monkey. Looking at this diagram, I feel like I am the monk and the children are the elephant and the monkey; it depicts a mother chasing after mischievous kids who won’t listen.

What is the difference between the minds of adults and children, Khenpo-la?

Khenpo:

Children’s minds are purer, simpler, and less complicated. Adults are more complicated; they think a lot more and are beset by thoughts of the past. Like I mentioned earlier, children are much easier to teach than adults.

Khenpo:

Of course children can meditate. Meditation is not a special field of study, and there is no need to study a whole lot beforehand. It is a method to cultivate inner strength and help oneself face different kinds of problems and difficulties. Meditation is not about merely sitting there, but it is about focusing on taming one’s mind, in other words, strengthening our minds.

How can we make our children emotionally stronger? For example, children often race around and frequently slam into a wall or fall down. If I catch it from the corner of my eyes, I don’t react right away but pretend to not notice and secretly examine him. The child, after realizing that I wasn’t startled nor did I scold or give him a beating, will not cry and gets up to continue playing. To me, this is also a kind of meditation because it builds their inner strength. In the same manner, adults should never overreact when their children encounter a challenging situation. If adults panic, children also become afraid and their minds will become nervous and unstable, gradually losing their inner strength. Therefore, I believe that meditation is to train children not to fear anything and be able to face any situation in the future.

Building mental strength is especially important to a child’s upbringing. There is a two-year-old at the retreat, and he can sit beside me without fidgeting too much for three two-hour lessons every day, which adds up to six hours in total. Even a young child like him can accustom to sitting and improve gradually. This child has been training his mind from young and is strengthening his ability to face problems, preventing him from suffering depression or delusional disorders when he gets older. I believe that if I can raise one thousand children in this way, not a single one of them will suffer from mental illnesses in the future.

Meditation does not necessarily involve the Dharma. The great Atisa composed a very important Buddhist text dividing practitioners into three capacities: small, middling, and supreme. The small capacity does not deal with the Dharma, but focuses mainly on building mental strength and becoming a virtuous person. We need to understand that meditation is not Buddhism, but it is the foundation allowing us to gradually learn something about Buddhism.

Zheng:

What Khenpo mentions about meditation and taming the mind is completely relevant to parenting. Many schools are teaching students mindfulness exercises, making them meditate for a few minutes to calm their minds down before class. At home, I let the children meditate briefly before bedtime as it helps to settle their minds and aids in falling asleep. Nowadays in the West, there is a catchphrase called “stress tolerance” in the field of parental education. It refers to whether a child can stay unwavering in the face of failure and retain the strength to tackle difficulties, or become completely defeated and unable to rise back up. If a child is tolerant of stress, he will be able to face many difficulties and challenges by himself in the future.

Zheng:

Each child has innate traits which differ from others. Some show concern for others while some are selfish, tell lies, lack empathy, or are disrespectful. Khenpo, how can parents remove negative habits and cultivate positive ones in their children?

Khenpo:

The biggest mistake is for parents to criticize teachers when their children complain. When something happens at school, children return home and complain to their parents, who then go on to reprimand the teacher. Knowing that they have parents who will support them, children become increasingly small-minded, form the habit of complaining, and no longer listen to their teachers. Gradually they give up trying and rely solely on adults when facing problems; they become more arrogant, temperamental, and defiant, eventually not even heeding the advice of their parents.

Physical wounds are a small matter, but the mind must not be damaged. Parents need to clearly understand the importance of developing inner strength in their children. To help children mature, parents have to let go and allow them to learn how to handle their own affairs.

We need to praise our teachers. It is essential to never criticize a teacher in front of children, nor be disrespectful towards them. Due to overindulgent parents, teachers lose their passion for teaching and become even less committed to teaching students. At the retreat center, if I realize that other teachers are not teaching well or have made an actual mistake, instead of criticizing them in front of the children, I speak to them and solve the problem privately.

Zheng:

Khenpo’s words are extremely wise. I too believe that we need to maintain healthy interactions with teachers, allowing us to cooperate together on the children’s education.

Zheng:

Parents are under a lot of pressure from society. They want their children to grow up healthily and happily, while at the same time enrolling them in multiple competitions, hoping they would win. They want their children to get into a prominent university, find a good job, and make something of themselves. Even parents compare amongst themselves, measuring a mother’s competency against her children’s success. This results in a vicious circle of constantly making comparisons. How should parents adjust their way of thinking, Khenpo?

Khenpo:

We will succeed if the mind is strong, but fail if the mind is weak. The key lies in cultivating a strong mind. As for other matters, we should act according to the situation! (Everyone laughs)

I have acquaintances who are deemed successful in the eyes of others. Some hold advanced degrees or have high achievements, whereas others are quite wealthy. They approach me to learn meditation. I am like their doctor, listening to their numerous troubles in private. Some are unhappy on a daily basis, others are suffering from long-term insomnia, and some have become physically and mentally ill. These rich and famous people have lost their health due to having weak minds. What a pity.

Happiness and health are the most important things for a child. If a child is strong mentally, anything he does will be successful. Fame, position, and wealth will naturally ensue, and he would then be in an even better position to help others. On the contrary, losing one’s health and happiness in pursuit of wealth and fame is a real pity, even if one gets to live in a grand mansion. If one has a healthy body and a happy mind, even living in a decrepit house will make for a happy life.

Zheng:

Ever since I gave birth to my first child, I have been making only three wishes on my birthdays: For them to be healthy, safe, and happy. Although occasionally I slip into dissatisfaction and wish my children were better than the others, I try to remind myself of what Khenpo had just mentioned — a healthy body and a happy mind are more important than anything else.

Khenpo:

First, take responsibility for yourself. We need to train children to conduct their own tasks without accepting help from parents or other people. There is a baby at the retreat center who is barely two years old, and I train him to take and throw his diapers away. (Everyone laughs)

Second, do not celebrate their birthdays. In the monasteries, we do not celebrate anyone’s birthdays except for the three gurus — His Holiness the Dalai Lama, His Holiness the Karmapa, and Thrangu Rinpoche. Even I am not allowed to celebrate my birthday. Think about this: there are more than one hundred people, including numerous children at the retreat center. If everyone were to celebrate their birthdays, how many tedious activities would there be? To be interrupted by minor, mundane activities for an extended period overwhelms the mind. Once the mind is stirred up, arguments and unhappiness arise and the mind gradually becomes smaller.

Zheng:

That’s true. If a child always sees himself as the center of the universe and that others should come to his service, he will easily turn out badly. Forming a self-centered attitude is dangerous for a child. In addition, as Khenpo mentioned earlier, making a child independent is also crucial. These days, parents help their children with too many tasks. For example, preparing meals, cleaning, and fetching textbooks they have forgotten. When children’s day-to-day living is wholly dependent on their parents, they have lost their independence and ability to take care of themselves. This is something I should also reflect more on.

Khenpo:

At the retreat center, if there is a mother and daughter or a mother and son participating in the retreat, I would ask the mother and child to sit separately. The aim is to stop the child from cuddling up to his mother, and to prevent the mother from affecting her child. I make all the children sit at the front during the teachings, and the second row is specially reserved for those who can’t sit long, are unwell, or are less well-behaved. The reason for this is because if someone they look up to is present, they naturally become cautious. This is particularly effective at correcting a child’s behavior. In addition, I pick a child’s language teacher not based on the teacher’s academic competence, but whether the teacher and I both share the same focus on developing the child’s inner strength.

Zheng:

Annually, there are more than a hundred competitions or exams in Hong Kong. I enroll my children in them not to prove how competent we are, but to provide them with more chances to experience failure. Together, we learn and build our abilities to withstand failures and setbacks in the process.

Khenpo:

The way I see it, the best opportunity is found when things go wrong. We learn not to give up, to work on improving, and make ourselves better when we deal with failures. The most dangerous time is when we experience success, because we might become proud and lose our cautiousness and diligence as a result.

Khenpo:

I have already shared my views and methods earlier in regards to this Q. There is no other option unless parents themselves are willing to let go. They should understand that it is all right for children to suffer a little hardship; they should allow them to practice accomplishing tasks by themselves and slowly build up their mental strength.

At the retreat center, I take care of two five-year-old monks who are twins. Their uncle, a Khenpo at the retreat center, persuaded his brother and sister-in-law into trusting me and brought his nephews to the retreat center. Initially, the boys disliked meditating and cried daily, or they would fall asleep once they started meditating. To train them, I did not allow them to sit with their mother. Once their mother adjusted to this, I separated the children and placed them with their appointed teachers. In the beginning, they would sit for a few minutes before falling asleep on their teachers’ laps, so I prepared an hourglass to wake them up every fifteen minutes and made them read The King of Aspiration Prayers. During the first month, the children were only able to meditate properly for five minutes. Gradually, that increased to ten minutes, twenty minutes, and an hour. Now, they can stay awake continuously for two hours while meditating.

I feel that the children under my care have stronger minds compared to worldly children. And that mother who let go of her twins became happier and less stressed out.

Zheng:

Khenpo is more successful at parenting than many of us. As parents, if we are unable to let go of our children, there is a way to solve this….(Laughs) We can send them to the retreat center for two years. (Audience laughs)

Audience:

I have three sons. They have bad habits that are hard to get rid of, perhaps the result of emulating my behavior as they were growing up. Under these circumstances, how can I help them?

Khenpo:

Their habits are formed due to your influence, so you have to start by making changes in yourself. You still have the time to change and affect your children. It will not be a waste to make changes, so please make yourself a better person!

Audience:

I have four children. My eldest daughter is six years old this year, and the other three are around a year old. My eldest has been pampered with too much affection since young, and thus developed poor living habits like needing to be fed by hand. Khenpo, as a reference for myself, please share in detail your experience in teaching the two-year-old monk.

Khenpo:

For things like holding diapers and throwing them away, I made the baby watch me do it. After a few times of watching, I made him pick up the diapers and throw them away by himself. Once, twice…he learned after a few times. I also came up with an idea on training the baby to eat. I put his spoon and bowl in a bag and hang it around his neck. He is still unable to walk stably so I carry him where the path is uneven. He carries his own little bag when we go to get our food. I carry him back after getting food, and lay the food out, for myself and the baby. While eating together, he watches and tries to imitate me. I pour water for him if he is thirsty, and let him try drinking it by himself. All in all, I believe that if the task is something the baby can handle by himself, I will sit back and allow him to do it. If he succeeds, I pat his head, kiss him, and encourage him. If he tries to do something dangerous, however, like using an electrical appliance by himself, I stop him sternly so that he remembers.

Audience:

After attending an Early Intervention therapy session and this morning’s talk, I have realized that often mothers are the ones playing the active role in parenting. How can we get fathers equally involved and balance out the responsibilities of raising children?

Khenpo:

Usually, I don’t see both parents involved in parenting; mothers bear the bulk of the responsibility. I don’t agree with this approach, as children are born by both parents, and thus they share equal responsibility in their children’s upbringing. I don’t really have many suggestions as to how exactly parenting should be, but I can share from my experiences. Among the relatives in my hometown, there is this couple with five children. When they correct a child who misbehaves, they reprimand him together, instead of making the father do the scolding while the mother comforts the child. Therefore, parents should stand on the same side when parenting. Children will not listen to parents who contradict themselves in front of them.

Zheng:

Khenpo is absolutely right on this. Parents should stand on the same side; just as parents shouldn’t criticize teachers in front of children, they must never criticize each other in front of them.

Parents should share the responsibilities of parenting. First, they should discuss in private and arrive at a common ground in regards to their children’s upbringing. For example, my husband is in charge of arranging the children’s physical activities and enrolling them in competitions, whereas I am responsible for communicating with the schools. We discuss what our responsibilities are and carry them out dutifully. Although we might hold different opinions on the ways to manage a situation, we don’t reveal that in front of the children, and we try to stay on the same side.

Audience:

I was born in 1989, so I ask this Q. both as a young adult and as a child. As part of a younger generation, we have been exposed to ideas, lifestyles, and information different from our parents’ experiences. Sometimes, I feel that parents cling stubbornly to their ideals, unable to accept new perspectives. How do we make our parents change?

Khenpo:

You mentioned that these new perspectives are superior and more developed, whereas traditional perspectives are old-fashioned and inferior. I cannot really agree with this. Why? Our current world is technologically and informationally advanced, but in terms of the mental aspect, I find that many city dwellers are unhappy. Perhaps I am what you refer to as “traditional”, thus I still believe the external aspects are not important. Prioritizing a healthy mind is the actual foundation of happiness.

You went on to say that from a child’s viewpoint, parents are difficult to communicate with. But consider another perspective: the very fact that you were able to travel overseas, receive an education, learn new knowledge, and enrich yourself all comes down to the support provided by your parents. Now that you are grown up and successful, you return to find many faults with your parents and are unable to communicate with them. I really don’t understand this attitude. Aren’t we supposed to feel gratitude towards our parents for our upbringing? I am not criticizing you; I am purely expressing my way of thinking. Everyone is entitled to their perspectives. I respect yours, but I also need to express my own. We all know that in the West, many elderly people live in nursing homes. In the East, we emphasize filial piety, which is similar to what the Buddha teaches. I find this very important.

Zheng:

How do parents deal with their children, who they have tirelessly brought up into adulthood, when they develop their own opinions and make their own choices? My parents have done a great job in regards to this Q. After my siblings and I have grown up, my parents have really shown respect to the individual lifestyle choices we made, despite not fully agreeing with them, and have allowed us to develop independently. As a mother myself, I am facing a similar situation. My son is currently in university; he is not rebellious, but he has many ideas of his own. Basically, I can’t tell him what he should do or what he should learn — he needs to discover on his own. What parents can do is respect their children’s choices and support them. Even if we differ in opinions, I have to trust that he is an independent adult; I only wish that the education I have provided enables him to walk on the right path. As for how he walks the path, I have to let go and let him walk on his own.

Audience:

I want to share my opinion too. These days, learning “internet slang” is important when parents want to communicate with their children. It is not usually necessary for parents to learn about new technology and innovations, but in order to communicate, parents have to first understand what their children are talking about. Modern parents have their own homework to do, which is to learn to use a new language. This is similar to learning the local language to spread the Dharma. A language is a tool for communication; communication must be available between parents and children for them to take the next step of exchanging ideas and perspectives.